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Dude, if you can't spell it, don't protest it. 

Comments

[Ann]

From the photos KTAR published, this guy wasn't the only one who needed guidance in sign-making. Among them was a sign of Senator Kyl with a raised hand making the gesture for the comment Senator McCain gave to Cronyn.

Such behavior is appalling, we can disagree...make your point, but calls of traitor and signs of that type do more harm than good.

I would not be surprised if some of them were plants to make Kyl look bad!

[ron]

Ann - do we need conspiracy theories to explain the bad behavior or the bad spelling?

Plants??? give me a break!

[BOB HARAN]

The gentlemen's spelling may not be that good, but he got his point across, didn't he?

Also, judging by the cap he is wearing identifying himself as a Vietnam veteran, I think he earned the right to protest, even if his spelling is bad, or does having served in the military make us second class citizens?

I don't know the gentlemen with the misspelled sign, but I'll defend his First Amendment right to protest anything he wants to, regardless of whether I agree or not, he earned that right, didn't he?

BOB HARAN,
Phoenix

[AmyH]

Ah, Kyl's office is in the building next to mine. I enjoyed this all day long - and today, too.

I always want to stop and ask if they dream for their children a life in the crop fields of Yuma. After all, their cheap and safe food needs to come from somewhere.

I know it's a waste of breath, especially when they can't even spell.

[RDH]

If that gentleman is truly a Vet AmyH, he has earned the right to make his point. Have you? Possibly while you were in school taking progressive socialism, he was standing in the breach so you could do so without trepidation. And I know this will probably shock your GenY mentality, but those crops got picked long ago also, before we had 12+ million "illegals" being exploited by large AgriBusiness. I know, as a kid I drug a cotton sack and picked cotton in the fields of Texas. No illegals there at all as I remember.

[AmyH]

RDH - I reread my post and never once saw where I criticized his military service or his right to protest. Everyone has a voice. I have a different opinion. Let me go on to correct some other broad assumptions.

I'm GenX and I spent my entire youth milking cows and raising livestock to put myself through college. I can go toe to toe with your field work and throw some blood and gore in the mix for good measure. No, we didn't have illegals there as we were a small operation. The muck farm a few miles down the road had migrant workers, though. The law was set up for them to come in and work, and go home. Somewhere along the way the process was broken and we are in the state we are in now.

My point was - I want to know who is going to do the work in the dirty jobs in the corporate farms that put the majority of food on the table, not us family laborers. Kids today aren't going to go out and work like we did. All families want better for their kids than they had it. That's the nature of capitalism (God bless it).

Illegal immigration is a major problem that needs to be addressed. There are questions and concerns that need to answered. It's not simple. Kyl is working to make a solution that works. I'm not going to say it's the right one or the wrong one. But something needs to be done and everyone has their opinion and right to express it. That was never a question.

[Joe]

If people don't want to do a certain type of work, what happens to the wage?

In short, it rises until the supply of workers equals the demand for workers.

Importing illegal workers keeps wages low, increases unemployment for Americans, extends periods of unemployment, and taxes our social systems.

Also, if the American economy does require additional workers, why does this require they all be given citizenship? Well-educated and highly-needed tech workers aren't given that good of a deal.

[Timothy]

Xenophobia, racism, socialism and economics aside, the problem with collecting taxes from non-citizens goes back the Revolutionary War. LIke before the Bill of Rights existed. Like that famous line about taxation and representation we learned in 7th grade. If you pay the tax, you get a vote, and if you don't get the vote you can start shedding someone else's blood. That's about as American a principle as you can get, and I haven't heard much about it this week.

[Ann]

Ron,

The possibility that those who would like to see Sen. Kyl, or any Republican for that matter, appear less credible to the public is not a conspiracy theory. It is politics, ugly but true. Convince the voters, with the help of the media, that not only have the R's sold us out but Senator Kyl is the ringleader. Makes for an easy approach in 2 years…... paint the picture of McCain as a loser and now Kyl has joined forces. The speculation of John McCain’s political future aside, no stone unturned is not a new concept.

[Aaron]

Maybe he meant to spell "amnesia" as it appears Kyl has changed course on this issue.

[Travis]

I support Senator Kyl for taking action - talk is getting real cheap on this subject. The senator could easily talk real big and tough on this issue, but what good is talk? The senate is in the hands of the Democrats. It could be much worse.

I don't like conspiracy theories either, but taking up crayolas and cardboard and stomping up and down the pavement to the delight of the media doesn't seem very conservative to me. Anyone can wear a vet hat and say they voted for Kyl - but the real motives and identities of these protestors are suspect to me.

We need to choose - talk or action - protest or participation. I think Kyl chose well.

[Ann]

How quick some have been to ridicule and attack Senator Kyl! Travis, you are right. It is easy to talk but to be effective is another story, all together.

They are making political hay for themselves with full understanding that their tactics will do nothing to assist Senator Kyl in achieving the true reform measures and border security he would rather be in the is bill. Yet, if they can position themselves as the face of opposition to illegal immigration even to the point of opposing a fellow Republican, then their political stock may have just taken a big jump.

This give a whole new meaning to self service.

[RDH]

AmyH, If you are aware of the drop-out rate in our public school system, then you are well aware that not every American kid is going to get a job in some profession that lets them continually maintain clean hands, and make their parents proud. As has been said so many times before, those jobs were getting done quite well before the illegals arrived on scene in the numbers we currently have. They (Ag business) will also be putting the food out there, perhaps at a different cost, but as you so well pointed out, our Capitalist system will step up and meet any need where their is a demand.

The reason for my less than tactful response was the condescending tone of this statement of yours "I know it's a waste of breath, especially when they can't even spell." As if proper grammer was necessary for someone to express their views, and since they can't spell then they probably cannot understand complex issues so why waste an effort on them.

[RDH]

PS:
The use of "grammer" as opposed to grammar, was my tounge in cheek shot at some humor. Heaven knows we could all use some right now.

[BOB HARAN]

THIS IS FOR ALL THE KOOL AID DRINKERS
-------------------------------------------

McCAIN ONLY HALF A SENATOR

John McCain was elected/hired by the people of Arizona to represent our state in the United States Senate. Not only has he not been representing the interest of the people of Arizona, he hasn't been showing up for work half the time. What employer would keep an employee that was not showing up for work half the time?

The excuse that the Senator's spokesperson gave for his absenteeism, that the Senator "hasn't missed a single vote where his would have been the determining one," is unacceptable. A senator's vote is also his record of where he stands and an indicator of how he will act on certain issues in the future. By not voting half the time, McCain has concealed his real position on many issues from the people. He can easily say as a candidate that he is for or against this or that, but the people only have half a record of his votes to know for sure where he really stands.

McCain probably doesn't want too many recorded votes because Republican primary voters will discover where he really stands. However, voters can certainly get an idea of who the real John McCain is by how he voted when he did show up for work.

Fiscal conservatives might be interested to know that McCain voted against approving President Bush's tax cuts, which resulted in a tie vote in the Senate and only passed because the Vice President broke the tie.

McCain voted with the Democrats to ban drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Social conservatives can learn a lot about how McCain operates by his vote in the Senate against a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage while he was telling Arizona voters he was opposed to gay marriage.

Anyone that cares about American jobs should remember that McCain was a strong supporter of and voted for NAFTA.

McCain supported allowing unsafe Mexican trucks to operate in the United States.

Along with former Congressman Jim Kolbe, John McCain sponsored a guest worker law that would have allowed a six year guest worker visa along with rewarding those in the United States illegally with amnesty and a three year visa.

Can anyone forget his attack on the First Amendment, McCain/Feingold?

When McCain was not missing votes in Congress or traveling around the country pandering for support for his presidential ambition, he would occasionally visit the state he was elected to represent, Arizona, and lend his vociferous opposition to things like Proposition 200, that was overwhelmingly approved by the voters and required proof of citizenship to vote.

The United States is a republic of fifty states, each entitled to two senators in congress, Arizona is being short changed, we only have, one and a half, senators representing our state and that half a senator is more concerned with gaining the White House then representing the people of Arizona.

As a citizen of Arizona, I agree with Russell Pearce, it would be in the best interest of the people of Arizona for John McCain to resign from the U.S. Senate and be replaced with a full time Senator.

As for the concern with Janet Napolitano selecting a replacement for McCain. She would have to choose a Republican and she would be hard pressed to find a Republican of lesser quality then John McCain.

BOB HARAN,

Vietnam Veteran against McCain and Amnesty.

[NICK]

I picked my first strawberry when I was
seven years old.

I spent many summers after that picking
various gifts from the ground.

Most displeasure was Hops. The bag was
four feet long and it seemed like the
bag would never be filled.

Somewhere a bunch of liberals said that
I and hundreds of kids that wanted some
work were being abused.

So now we import labor because Americans
dont want to do the work.

I can also tell you about newspaper delivery
at 5 am when it is raining kats and dogs on
the Oregon coast.

More sad stories if you want?

What doesn't break you makes you stronger!

[NICK]

Let go John.

You need some rest.

[ron]

The run for the 9th floor in 2010 should be very interesting - now that the GOP is clearly split between Randy Pullen/Russell Pierce and Jon Kyl/John McCain.

[Libby]

In response to the various comments about labor and agriculture...

Both Amy H, Joe, and RDH make legitimate points, but what they all fail to consider is the nature of agriculture. You see, the market works well. If ag has to raise its wages to the point it will attract Americans to do the work, the prices of American produce will rise to a point where suppliers will no longer be willing to pay these prices when they can import the same product for much cheaper from foreign countries. Farmers are not price makers, they are price takers and they are competing in a global economy. It is not uncommon for a farmer to grow something, and then sell it for less than than it cost him to produce it. And produce farmers do NOT recieve any subsidies from the government.

The real question we should be considering is this...Would we rather import our labor or import our food supply? That's the question, it's not about legal, illegal, kids, etc. If we choose to import our labor, than we will be assured that we can maintain our national food supply, which is the safest in the world. If we choose NOT to import labor, than we have conciously chosen to import our food supply. In affect, we will have put our livelihood in the hands of the rest of the world. Our country is too accustomed to having an ample, safe food supply readily available at the local grocer. We're missing the forest for the trees!

So what's your answer?

[libby]

Quick fix...
I unconsciously mispelled 'consciously' in the last post. Just wanted to correct the mistake before someone attacked me

[Joe G.]

Lot of my produce comes from Mexico, if the stickers on the products are to be believed.

I wouldn't mind an Ag visa, or a guest worker program targeted to specific industries. Problem is, these justifications to import low wage earners inevitably morph to citizenship and family migration. The inequities in this type of immigration vs. the restrictions on H1-B (tech jobs) visas makes no sense. For instance, ag workers migrate in, then bop into any job they want, stay as long as they want, and (with this legislation) get a path to citizenship, while the H1-B holder has to stay in the specific job and is at the end of the line.

I'd also prefer to pay the actual price of a piece of produce -- if I find certain products to be too expensive, I can change my market basket, so to speak...which is better than paying for my fruit thru higher taxes, higher insurance rates, higher medical costs, etc.

Yes, we might need low-wage, low-skill workers...but we should desire people who want to become Americans, and there are many indicators to believe that's not what we're getting.

[libby]

Joe,
Thanks for the response but you're still missing the point. Your 'fruit' won't be more expensive, that's opposite of what I am saying. If we don't adequately provide for an ag guest worker program, we will no longer have agriculture in the U.S. and we will import all of our food. Unfortunately, you don't get to decide if you pay more for your fruit. The retailers and suppliers do and they will just bring in the 'cheap' stuff from other countries, hence the mexican produce you are already buying. There are only two choices, import our labor or import our food. I understand this is a tough pill to swallow, but it is the reality. I am not a pro-illegal, pro-amnesty person. If we could stop the rhetoric, we would realize that all of the industrialized nations in the world have guest workers. Our problem is that the liberals and unions don't like guest workers. We should be admonishing them...