The 49ers

Is this image from azcentral meant to be a cruel assessment of the Napolitano Administration?  After six years of neglect, Arizona has actually fallen to 49th in education funding and these guys are marching to show their disgust.   Dude, that's harsh. 

I'm mean, she has a legacy there's..well...the employer sanctions law.

Comments

[Publius]

A few years ago, when a similar debate about education cuts was being undertaken, I did a little comparison between NYC and Arizona schools, and found that, while NYC spends upwards of THREE TIMES the amount, per student, on education, standardized test scores were significantly lower, overall, than Arizona students. In many cases, up to 15 points LOWER overall than comparable Arizona school districts.

Also, NY is under a constitutional constraint: no more than THREE PERCENT of the education budget can be spent on administration. In Arizona, that number can be as high as SEVENTY PERCENT, or more, in many school districts.

Arrive at you own conclusions, but clearly, it's not just about money.

[Concerned about education]

Don't forget the classic study of the relationship between per-pupil funding and student performance:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/23/AR2008042302983.html

"Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan once puckishly said that data indicated that the leading determinant of the quality of public schools, measured by standardized tests, was the schools' proximity to Canada. He meant that the geographic correlation was stronger than the correlation between high test scores and high per-pupil expenditures."

[Jean McGrath]

About once a year Senator Bob Burns writes an editorial setting out the facts about what Arizona spends on K-12. He shows that Arizona with approz. $9,000 spent by the state per pupil is about in the middle of the states. I think he stated 26th in his last writing. The $9,000 does not include any federal dollars, district bonding or additional dollars for minority enrollment districts such as Tucson Unified. The number of states who claim to be 49th in student funding is an amazingly long list.

[todd]

Publius,
According to the AZ state auditor general, Arizona Districts spend 9.5% on administration compared to the national average of 11%.

I don't know where you are getting you information but, boy, is it way off.

The state of New York schools far exceed Arizona schools in nearly every measure.

[azpublius]

Todd, Publius is right that there are some school districts with amazingly high administrative cost ratios. The Blue comes to mind. But those are in areas with very small student populations but a requirement to serve. They are the exception that proves the rule. Also, Title 15 of the Arizona Revised Statutes is the driving force behind much of the administrative costs across the State. If you want to cut administrative costs, start there.

[todd]

Azpublius,
Publius claims "many" districts have such high costs, which is an incorrect statement. The districts that do have unusual circumstances. While it is certainly correct to point to examples of this, the claim that this is true for "many" really distorts the debate about school funding, especially considering the information I pointed to which shows Arizona school districts administrative costs are below the national average.

[Huppenthal]

Arizona ranks 21st in test scores on an apples to apples basis (comparing our high income hispanics with all other high income hispanics, our low-income caucasians with theirs, etc) (RAND).

You can only contrive Arizona to rank 48th by not counting some of our spending. If you are going to do that, let's go to the only thing that counts: teachers salaries. The NEA is the expert on teachers salaries.

Arizona (www.nea.org) ranks 24th in average teacher salary and 11th in average instructional salary.

The average instructional salary is a better comparison of salaries because it more accurately compares like to like (twelve years experience plus master's degree to twelve plus masters). Average salary doesn't do that because Arizona has added over 70% of its teachers in the last ten years, placing them at the bottom of the salary schedule.

So, Arizona ranks 21st in test scores and 11th in teacher pay.

How do we get to be number one in test scores?

[todd]

Huppenthal,
Sorry, but the Census, Education Week, the NEA, Department of Education and many others rank Arizona at or near the bottom in per pupil spending. These constant attempts to distort this simple fact are becoming tiresome.

The NEA actually ranks Arizona 36th in average teacher pay so your facts are wrong or outdated. Your argument about instructional salary makes no sense at all since it does no compare like to like as you claim since it is an average of all instructional staff.

Arizona has the second highest student-teacher ratio.

I can't find the RAND study you refer to, but are you seriously suggesting Arizona has better than average test scores?

[Huppenthal]

Todd,

You are right. The NEA has posted new data on our average salary. We are ranked 36th in average pay. The radical change in the NEA ranking raises some questions. But, I'll accept that as the most recent post.

To get a true ranking on pay, you have to adjust that salary ranking for cost of living.

And, yes on an apples to apples, scientific basis, Arizona does have higher than average test scores by a very small margin.

Your incredulity comes from our raw National Assessment of Education progress scores being one of the lowest. But, if you want to evaluate our schools, you have to compare our demographic and income groups with other states. Our ranking and performance is at about the average.