You Lie.

Dan Nowicki has a good story on the coarsening of political discourse, but it lacks context. 

It seems that the mainstream media don't understand that the left treated Bush like Hitler for eight years and are somehow surprised that they have permanently lowered the level of discourse.

Take this uncharacteristically clueless comment from the Gabby Giffords.

"He was called a liar on the floor of the Congress," Giffords said. "It was a little shocking. I certainly never heard anything like that during President Bush's addresses. I know there were a lot of people who disagreed with what he had to say."

Of course she wasn't in Congress in 2005 when Democrats booed Bush's State of the Union Address.  Listen close and see if you hear them yell "you lie."

The hapless Arizona Daily Star (are they still around?) has diccovered the need for "civility" as well. 

Civility aside of course, there's the substance of Joe Wilson's charge.  After all, Wilson's outburst occurred when President Obama was claiming that the new health plan wouldn't cover illegal aliens--during a speech in which he claimed that the overall plan will save money.  Is there anyone who thinks those two assertions are true? 

To be sure, there probably won't be an actual category called "Coverage for the Undocumented," but some portion of the coverage will go to provide care for illegal aliens and, while perhaps not a huge percentage of the total package, the number is likely to be billions of dollars annually. 

And what about the whopper that Obama Care will save money?  The Congressional budget office certainly doesn't think so. 

So the left set a new standard of disruption and protest during the Bush years and they seem legitimately shocked that the right has decided to embrace that standard during the Obama years.  I can understand their dismay--since the right are generally polite and have jobs, radical protest isn't their style.  I guess the difference is that Republican protests will have to be on Saturdays...oh, and there won't be as much litter. 

Comments

[BobH]

I share the Dem/MSM concern about the decline in political civility, and I agree that Wilson was out of line.

But you are certainly right that the bar was so lowered during the Bush=Hitler years that the current hand-wringing strikes one as just a tad hypocritical.

[MK]

The other thing most people aren't mentioning is the President had just finished calling Republican criticisms of his reform "cynical" and "irresponsible" "lies."

Like most people, I agree that Wilson should not have blurted out "you lie." But, at least he can argue it was a heat of the moment, spontaneous comment. Pres. Obama, on the other hand, deliberately injected a lot of partisanship into this speech.

[John]

Actually the nasty partisanship started with the back bench, bomb-throwing antics of Newt Gingrich during the late 80's when he decided that the way to power was to bring down Speaker Jim Wright and then he and his class of '94 proteges continued that behavior during the Clinton Administration. It's funny how people that like to complain about how Bush was treated tend to forget where this all started.

[Geoff]

Or you could go back to the slanderous statements concerning Judge Bork by America's favorite chauffeur, Ted Kennedy.

[Conway]

Jim Wright an innocent victim of Newt Gingrich...Nice try, John.

[todd]

We should have more incivility in politics, not less. Democrats were far to deferential to Bush leading up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Maybe more people should have called him out as a liar.

The problem with Joe Wilson is that he was wrong to claim Obama was lying in saying illegal immigrants would not be covered and that is fairly clear in all language I have seen. In many ways it is a shame illegal immigrants aren't being covered, but that is another argument.

The other problem I have with Wilson is that he is also a racist moron. What I just said is clearly uncivil, but the thing is it is true and I certainly invite anyone who wants to take exception to what I said to do their own research before attacking me.

[twitter.com/JackThomasAZ]

The problem with the lefties is that they never think ahead. They never consider the consequences of their actions. They permanently lowered the standard with their foul behavior toward Bush and now they are "shocked" to see the other side of the aisle act like they did.

Consider the calls for the truth commissions and putting the Bush administration on trial. Here's yet another example of not thinking ahead. If they are successful and do put Bush or any members of his administration on trial, what do you think is going to happen in four or eight years when Obama is out of office? They'll be on trial and the U.S. will look like some third world dictatorship where we execute the previous leader every time there's another coup.

The lefties complain about the protesters at the town halls shouting down their fellow citizens. Yes, that behavior is bad, but didn't we see that same behavior from the left in the past? You bet we did. Another standard for bad behavior is set in stone.

Liberal Drivel www.liberaldrivel.com

[David Cantelme]

It goes back much longer. Who can forget the 1968 Democrat convention at Chicago? In 1972 I went to a speech given by President Nixon at the Coliseum on West McDowell Street. As I was walking in, I spotted an older lady in a frenzy waving a sign furiously, and heard her shout, "I hope they cut his ____ off," referring to a tender part of the male anatomy, as the presidential limousine drove by. Since I was a senior in high school at the time, I had heard language like that before -- but not from an older lady worked up into such a state. The incongruity lingers in the memory.

[Alan]

There is currently a law, EMTALA, which requires hospitals to treat ANYONE that comes to the door and another, HIPPA, which requires patient privacy. Nothing in the healthcare plan changes these requirements, so illegals will receive medical treatment under the proposed plans. If the President says otherwise, he is not being truthful.

[todd]

Alan,
Of course illegal aliens receive medical treatment if they show up at emergency rooms. What does that have to do with being covered by the insurance reform being discussed?

[ron]

I see George W. Bush was worried about the rate of taxation and the collapse of Social Security in 2005. Anyone care to explain the continued growth of government during his 8 years? Or to explain why he and his administration continued to drain Social Security to pay for his agenda? Maybe his actions spoke louder than the words of his audience.

[Steve F.]

ron-

Bush was never considered a hardcore Republican by most party faithful, hense the continued growth of government.

Perhaps that was why he was re-elected in 2004, or maybe it was the visceral reaction to that arrogant nitwit Kerry. Either way, Bush wasn't the hardcore ideologue that the left has made him out to be.

The only time where he really stood firm was the War on Terror, everything else was negotiable.

Bush also managed somehow to keep a majority in Congress for six years. It remains to be seen if Obama can accomplish the same.

[Steve F.]

The nice thing about Wilson's outburst is that it forced Obama to push Congress for verification measures, which the bill notably lacked.

Sure, it said illegals wouldn't be covered, but there were no teeth in that measure.

Now there will be teeth; a bad bill now becomes slightly better.

[todd]

Steve F. - this is a tremendous amount of revisionism. The Republican Party faithful were quite clear in their feeling he was 'one of us' and their full-throated defense of every action he took.

[Tea Party Tom]

EMTALA law requires that anyone who shows up at an emergency room be treated, regardless of insurance, ability to pay, citizenship or immigration status. EMTALA was passed in 1986. Obama's proposal is not about who is or is not eligible for emergency treatment. It's about providing insurance coverage to the 47 million American citizens who don't have it. The bill is as clear as clear can be. Insurance benefits or subsidies will not be given to undocumented immigrants. Joe Wilson was lying, not Obama.

EMTALA was passed in 1986 by a Republican controlled Senate under Robert Dole and signed into law by Ronald Reagan. The same crew that gave us an immigration bill that included amnesty for millions of "illegal aliens."

If the right wing doesn't like spending health care money on illegals and granting them amnesty, why didn't they object back then? Gosh, the fun they could have had. They could have held tea parties. They could have shouted and disrupted meetings and insulted the President of the United States of America with their rude boorish behavior. They could have showed up at political events with guns and assault rifles. They could have called Reagan a Nazi or a Socialist. They could have threatened to assassinate Reagan, and murder Nancy and her stupid children too. Oh the fun they might have had. Maybe they could even have prayed for the death of Ronald Reagan.

But they didn't. Why? Health care money and amnesty for illegals were okay then but they aren't now? Reagan and Dole were Republicans, and Republicans are always right and Democrats are always wrong? Reagan and Dole were white guys? Why?

[papatodd]

Of course Obungle lied and continues to lie. Perfect example, if BHO is going to save $500 billion in fraud and waste in medicare, why isn't he stopping the fraud and waste NOW? He does not need to pass a bill that will not take effect until 2013. Do it NOW, Yes we CANT !!

[RonB]

There has always been bitterness in U.S. politics. Just read about the Jefferson versus Hamilton vitriol from George Washington's administration; or the attacks on Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln--the list goes on and on. But as far as the latest venom, I believe the tipping point was Ted Kennedy's attack on Robert Bork. Since then, in addition to the "traditional" bickering, the level of hate has descended to new lows that were not seen before, especially surrounding Senate Judiciary Committee meetings regarding Supreme Court appointments.

[Dave K.]

Now Ron, don't go injecting facts into this. You'll upset the leftists ...

[RonB]

My bad; I don't know what I was thinking.